Shame on You Tzivos Hashem
Tzivos Hashem is an orginazation founded in 1980 by the Lubavitcher Rebbe as a youth group to serve both the physical and spiritual needs of Jewish children. The Rebbe held this orginazation so dear that at one point a child was in the hospital with the machla, the Rebbe told the parents the cure for him was to, "raise his level in Tzivos Hashem". The Rebbe held this orginazation in a very high spiritual stature. Last night Tzivos Hashem made a concert at Bam, to honor 30 amazing years of progress. To so greatly honor Tziovs Hashem, some of today's best entertainers were hired to preform. Of course a Lubavitch orginazation founded by The Rebbe would only hire Jewish performers right? Yet some in charge decided to take it a step forward. They decided to let the world know that the heads at Tzivos Hashem no longer care about the values the Lubavitcher Rebbe stood for, not even the basic values of chasdic philosophy. They decided to show kids of the frum world that its alright to run after the ways the goyim. The decided it is alright to disregard all the Lubavitcher Rebbe's strong words about not having mixed seating at events. They decided to show kids, through an organization which the Rebbe founded to serve spiritual needs of Jewish children, that they should seek out the ways of secular world.
Over the past few weeks Tziovs Hashem slowly released footage of what they would be doing by this "show". Only over the past few days did they put up photos and video of the show which would be containing goyim and training kids to follow in such ways. As soon as this became public knowledge calls were immediately put forth (by community members) to Tziovs Hashem to take action and cease from such a preformance. One of the people involved in the directing of the show, Danny Finkelman, spoke publicly defending the shows actions saying it was "Very Proper and the way of the fututre".
TheCoolJew.com received a phone call on Friday from a party in Tziovs Hashem, stating that a meeting had taken place the previous day (Thursday)and a decision was made to pull these goyim from the show. They told TheCoolJew that the video was put out to "TEST THE WATERS". They then asked that TheCoolJew to remove its article against Tzivos Hashem as the organization already had enough negative attention. They further threatened TheCoolJew that if the article was not removed they would no longer have access to any of its events or doings. TheCoolJew told Tzivos Hashem the article would not only not be removed but they would hold the orginazation to its words that they removed the goyim.
After Shabbas TheCoolJew spoke with Lipa Shmeltzer regarding the show, and he told TheCoolJew that, "I am not the rabbi, I am a singer who needs to make a living and I am not involved with the decision making." He further stated, "If the world would be have normal rabbis, and allow other stuff, people would know better how to behave, the issue is that everything is forbidden so people just don't know were to stop." When he was asked does he support the actions of the organization to put these people on stage he said, "I am only singing here and I relied on the fact that this is Tzivois Hashem."
Early Sunday Morning in the Crown Heights Kollel Hagaon Rabbi Y. A. Heller Shlita (Head of the Crown Heights Kollel) articulated strong words against the concert. Stressing many times that all those involved meant well, he blasted the actions of Tzivos Hashem, which besides for encouraging the kids of Crown Heights to dance with goyim, are also encouraging the community on a regular weeknight to close their gemaras, and attend a concert, all this in the name of Tzivos Hashem and Lubavitch. He also added this would be a nice thing for a shliach to do with his community, but not for the frum chasisdim of Crown Heights.
Then finally come Sunday night and the concert took place. When people came into the show the first thing people noticed was the seating which was all mixed. Boys next to girls without a blink of an eye. What happened to all the years and talks the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave about not C"V doing mixed events. What happened to the Rebbe screaming at Chabad Houses, how much more so Tzivos Hashem. A very nice performance followed, Yet the standers the show had were very low. One person who attended the event told TheCoolJew, " If I had any question on what Rabbi Heller said this morning it was defiantly he who was right." The promise the organization made to remove these goyim from the show was not kept in the slightest. They lied to the public to further sell tickets. Yes it was only a small minor detail. Yes it was not part of the whole show. Yes they were out for a good cause. But where and at what point do we draw the line. Where do we put out foot down and say enough is enough? If this today what do we let our kids get involved with tomorrow? This is the future of Am Yisrael. This is the future of Torah.
The heads at Tzivos Hashem no longer care about the values the Jewish Children. They are instructed to help with their spirtual needs and they are failing. They showed this last night. They decided to show kids of the frum world that its alright to run after the ways the goyim and inmate their was as they are better then our own. In stead of being on the forfront of creating Yiddish entertainment they blend the frum world with they goyim distorting the line in between. The decided it is alright to disregard all the Lubavitcher Rebbe's strong words about not having mixed seating event or intermingling with goyim. JEM recently released a clip showing how much the Rebbe cared about the educational philosophies used for kids. They Rebbe was so particular on every little value and idea that enters the minds of a Jewish child. The organization of Tziovs Hashem can now be seen as a Chillul Hashem. Is this extreme? We think not. Its a move to put a foot down and call out when does it stop? Where do we draw the line? To those who emailed thecooljew saying we have a personal vendetta against Tziovs Hashem we invite you to dig and search. No vendetta will be found. Those who look for the truth will see this was an honest campaign to stand up for what is right. Tziovs Hashem you were established to benefit kids' spiritual needs. Last night Tziovs Hashem your show called "Kids Got Talent", turned into Kids Got Ruined! Shame on you.
Over the past few weeks Tziovs Hashem slowly released footage of what they would be doing by this "show". Only over the past few days did they put up photos and video of the show which would be containing goyim and training kids to follow in such ways. As soon as this became public knowledge calls were immediately put forth (by community members) to Tziovs Hashem to take action and cease from such a preformance. One of the people involved in the directing of the show, Danny Finkelman, spoke publicly defending the shows actions saying it was "Very Proper and the way of the fututre".
TheCoolJew.com received a phone call on Friday from a party in Tziovs Hashem, stating that a meeting had taken place the previous day (Thursday)and a decision was made to pull these goyim from the show. They told TheCoolJew that the video was put out to "TEST THE WATERS". They then asked that TheCoolJew to remove its article against Tzivos Hashem as the organization already had enough negative attention. They further threatened TheCoolJew that if the article was not removed they would no longer have access to any of its events or doings. TheCoolJew told Tzivos Hashem the article would not only not be removed but they would hold the orginazation to its words that they removed the goyim.
After Shabbas TheCoolJew spoke with Lipa Shmeltzer regarding the show, and he told TheCoolJew that, "I am not the rabbi, I am a singer who needs to make a living and I am not involved with the decision making." He further stated, "If the world would be have normal rabbis, and allow other stuff, people would know better how to behave, the issue is that everything is forbidden so people just don't know were to stop." When he was asked does he support the actions of the organization to put these people on stage he said, "I am only singing here and I relied on the fact that this is Tzivois Hashem."
Early Sunday Morning in the Crown Heights Kollel Hagaon Rabbi Y. A. Heller Shlita (Head of the Crown Heights Kollel) articulated strong words against the concert. Stressing many times that all those involved meant well, he blasted the actions of Tzivos Hashem, which besides for encouraging the kids of Crown Heights to dance with goyim, are also encouraging the community on a regular weeknight to close their gemaras, and attend a concert, all this in the name of Tzivos Hashem and Lubavitch. He also added this would be a nice thing for a shliach to do with his community, but not for the frum chasisdim of Crown Heights.
Then finally come Sunday night and the concert took place. When people came into the show the first thing people noticed was the seating which was all mixed. Boys next to girls without a blink of an eye. What happened to all the years and talks the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave about not C"V doing mixed events. What happened to the Rebbe screaming at Chabad Houses, how much more so Tzivos Hashem. A very nice performance followed, Yet the standers the show had were very low. One person who attended the event told TheCoolJew, " If I had any question on what Rabbi Heller said this morning it was defiantly he who was right." The promise the organization made to remove these goyim from the show was not kept in the slightest. They lied to the public to further sell tickets. Yes it was only a small minor detail. Yes it was not part of the whole show. Yes they were out for a good cause. But where and at what point do we draw the line. Where do we put out foot down and say enough is enough? If this today what do we let our kids get involved with tomorrow? This is the future of Am Yisrael. This is the future of Torah.
The heads at Tzivos Hashem no longer care about the values the Jewish Children. They are instructed to help with their spirtual needs and they are failing. They showed this last night. They decided to show kids of the frum world that its alright to run after the ways the goyim and inmate their was as they are better then our own. In stead of being on the forfront of creating Yiddish entertainment they blend the frum world with they goyim distorting the line in between. The decided it is alright to disregard all the Lubavitcher Rebbe's strong words about not having mixed seating event or intermingling with goyim. JEM recently released a clip showing how much the Rebbe cared about the educational philosophies used for kids. They Rebbe was so particular on every little value and idea that enters the minds of a Jewish child. The organization of Tziovs Hashem can now be seen as a Chillul Hashem. Is this extreme? We think not. Its a move to put a foot down and call out when does it stop? Where do we draw the line? To those who emailed thecooljew saying we have a personal vendetta against Tziovs Hashem we invite you to dig and search. No vendetta will be found. Those who look for the truth will see this was an honest campaign to stand up for what is right. Tziovs Hashem you were established to benefit kids' spiritual needs. Last night Tziovs Hashem your show called "Kids Got Talent", turned into Kids Got Ruined! Shame on you.
There is a reason we are to be A Nation Apart. We are not to mingle and party with goyiim. When we do barriers fall. This is a perfect example. Personally, I do not want to see Jews singing, rapping and coarsly gesturing like black rappers do. I hate to see this being encouraged in our world. We do not have to emulate them! We can sing and dance our way. There is nothing "better" for us in the goyishe world. HKBH does not want to see His Yidden acting in all manner of coarse goyiim but with Jewish words and themes coming out of the mouth...And I hate to say this but at times you help promote this behavior.
ReplyDeleteAgreed and I have been emailed a number of times and have always told people to please call me out on it and things will be removed!
ReplyDeleteI'm not Chabad so i have no idea what the Rebbe's philosophy was, but I do know that without Chabad the JM world would be very different today. Chabad have always been the ones to expand Jewish Music, from Moshe Yess to 8th Day to DeScribe (Matisyahu) to A Jewish Star (amongst the many stars-Avraham Fried, Benny, Shlomo Simcha...). So I would like to thank the Rebbe for allowing his Chassidim to express their talents.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe wanted people to express talent in a yiddish kosher way. Not Chos Vishalom run after goyim. The Rebbe would never approve to have them in a show like this.
ReplyDeleteSome true Jewish talent that was bhashgocho protis released today!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXcXySZWVL4
Thank You for this piece.Truly a protest that HAD to be made.May you recieve much s'char for having the courage and zeal to speak up.Thank You
ReplyDeleteThis article had the Rebbe quoted in it way too much. Although I agree with almost everything you wrote, I just wanted to let you in on a little seceret the Litvish Gedolim(Misnagdim as you guys call us)& Chasidish Rebbes have been banning these singers for the last 20 plus years....(MBD, Avraham Fried Dedi, Lipa, Shwekey---just to name a few) and FINALLY the Chabad world(a bit too late if I may say) picked up that these concerts are pure trash. I would like to wish you a mazel tov on this momentous occasion...Hatzlacha Rabba Let us bring Moshiach NOW!!
ReplyDeleteA Frum and caring Jew (and I'm not to "cool")
This article holds no weight. You did not once mention what kind of entertainment these "goyim" were supplying. You did not prove even once that anything incorrect was happening. Just because someone is not born Jewish, doesn't mean we can't use him to add to our lives. The fact that someone isn't Jewish does not make him performing at Tzivos Hashem wrong in any way.
ReplyDeleteThey were supplying the kids with dances moves. In the name of Tzivos Hashem kids were trained by goyimg to dance like goyim and then they added these goyim to the show. We have nothing against goyim they just dont belong part of our shows particularity when they are there to show kids how to act or behave.
ReplyDeleteChaya you don't know what the heck your are saying go to sleep
ReplyDeletethats a lie!!
ReplyDeletei was there - no goiym wore there (besides the door man and others working in BAM!!!)
They goyim in the show and the mixed seats very much happened. Everyone who was watching carefully noticed. Maybe you were to far from the stage to see what was going on.
ReplyDeleteTO MR. or MRS. Anonymous who said
ReplyDeletethats a lie!!
i was there - no goiym wore there (besides the door man and others working in BAM!!!)
March 28, 2011 2:27 AM
i guess you kept your eyes shut and did NOT see the GOYIM on stage SPAAAAAAAZZZZZ
First of all, your "article" was terribly written.. If i didn't know better, i would say a 5 year old wrote it. It's an embarrassment.
ReplyDeleteThe mixed seating is shocking, and that is probably the real story here..
Now, to address your article, if "goyim" which you keep on mentioning, had taught the kids to dance 'Hupp Cossack' style, i don't believe anyone would take issue. On the other hand, if lipa had taught them to do the 'moon walk', that would be an issue...
I think it is safe to say, that the underlying factor is the STYLE of dance, and not the people teaching it. I don't see you mentioning that. Which leads me to assume, that the way they danced was fine. So i ask, What is the issue?
Were all of the musicians Jewish? Was everything they played, of jewish "style"? If the dancers, did the same moves, but were israeli chilonim, would you still be so upset? Is a concert a way we should educate the children, to promote fame, and not learning? The questions can go on and on..
The fact that you are nit picking at this specific issue, is, it seems to me, because you were mistakingly told that they weren't going to be there, yet they were. That, however, is besides the point..
I am utterly confused as to why you think, that you are the elected police man, to say that, "this is where the line must be drawn". Why draw the line here?
How about only nigguim, and chassidushe style music? Instead of this heavy metal, auto-tune, parodys, excuse for jewish music out there??
Any fool can stand there in an outrage. It take a chacham to find constructive solutions...
This article does NO good.
How about starting a video series for kids? Maybe teaching niggunim or the like?
Your arguments are shaky at best. Your outrage seems odd. But at least your amunah is there..
love your site, rock on!
so did you or did you not post the 8th day music video?
ReplyDeleteThat had Goyim and "Goyishe dancing"
Was that OK?
If we didnt learn from Goyim - I dont think we would have music at all - music and musical instruments, recording devices etc are things that people use and we use it in our way
I'm sorry - but dancing with an umbrella is not goyish
Its just a little shitick
Do you stop and scream and a chusson and kallah if someone starts breakdancing?
Besides for dancing in a circle - what else is a "jewish dance"?
I agree that there may be a fe SLIGHT issues with the general style, that the ebbe may have not agreed with. And all of it (except for mixed seating) is nothing straight out wrong, its just a non-chassidisher FEELING. and therefore some thing i would have spoken to the director if tzivos hashem about IN HIS OFFICE - behind closed doors.
ReplyDeleteWhat Im seeing here dosent look like a condemnation of the above, it looks more like a personal hatred, perhaps because when trying to broadcast the event or its controversy, you were denied access to the importent people, or their comments (like they write themselves: they were threatened with "denied access), or perhaps maybe a childhood issue.
What leads me to think so is (like mentioned above): its not something that deserves this article, so from this that TheCoolJew posted it, and from the tone of voice and the amount o validity they had to their complaint leads us all to say that The CoolJew isn't an innocent website.
let me add that the cool jew is the last jewish - frum - website to come up with such complaints. had they followed the rules that they write to 'Bipshitus' they woukd have about one video post per week.
we want Moshiach now so lets fight some more....
ReplyDeleteI have no personal agendas. I challenge anyone to dig deep to find out as much as you can. See if you can find a personal vendetta that I may have with Tzivos Hashem. You will never find it because it does not exists. My concern here is for an orginazation that the rebbe started. My concern here is for the standers that it is bringing to kids.
ReplyDeleteIt is statements like these that make me want to sign with a non jewish label in LA. Because if were not going to open our doors to talent and treat talent the way it should be treated then why aim for the Jewish music industry. With mainstream, you can stay religious and send a message to a larger audience including yiddim around the world.
ReplyDeleteThe Argument it against Tzivos Hashem and what the orginazation did. Not the music industry in general. Tziovs Hashem has a standard to hold it self to. Let people be free to do as they wish! Aderaba go make inovative music. The complaint is against Tzivos Hashem. They have a standard to live up to.
ReplyDelete@thecooljew
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone really cares what your personal 'battle' with TH is. BUT, When someone who is 'press' takes something small, and blows it out of proportion, it is either propaganda, to generate buzz around the site. Or becasue HE has a personal agenda.. Pick you choice.. "dig deep etc.." lol. WE don't have to. It's black on white..
you revise your article, to basicly say, that although it was only a "small part of the show" etc.. it might lead to other bad things... Stop pretending that you are a master mechanech! How do you know What leads to what? And PLEASE Tell Me Do you Really think, the Rebbe would approve of public Loshon hara/ Bad mouthing, of ANYONE!, let Alone , His mosed?!?!
Enough already! Stand back from you bias, and look at the situation objectively.. This is utterly pathetic!
I never asked to be the one to speak up. But at times when no one else does it needs to be done. As somone who truly does care about this orginazation, I wont tolerate it to watch it go down the drain so fast. Listen in a place where a leader is needed you got to be it. This is not Lashon Hora by any means. It is stuff that is open for the public to know. No Lashon Hora involved here. Only bringing to light what people already know.
ReplyDeletethis does no good.
ReplyDeletebe constructive not destructive. do a good peulah. you sound like an ignominious pretending "better"
majority doesn't agree with you..
Also you don't address any of the important questions in the comments..
What question do you want to address?
ReplyDeleteFinally time someone took a stand on the kids issue!
ReplyDelete@thecooljew
ReplyDeleteyeah, your right, no on asked you.. and writing about tzivos hashem's threats to YOU, IS Loshon hara! and the rest, and even though its not loshon hara in the true sense of the term, since more than 3 people know about it. it is nonetheless forbidden to bad mouth... look it up.
the issue I have is that aside from you I have not hear one person from crown heights take any issue with this at all. I have not seen on facebook or in the street anyone at all upset about this. You post much more crazy things on this website on a daily basis. Untznius women, untznius topics, crazy meshichist crack heads making huge chillul lubavitch and chillul hashem for that matter. This site commits more chillul hashem on a daily basis (especially according to your seemingly new self riotous high standards)than anyone.
ReplyDeleteThe good that Tzivos Hashem has done in its lifetime outweighs anything you've done if you had 100 lifetimes. I do wonder what the agenda is, there must be one because no one else seems to care except you.
You post videos with non jewish people and non jewish dancers and non jewish background music. You are a big eli gerstner fan and his kids routinely learn new "goyish" style dances.
I think you need to either rethink your entire websites derech or drop this issue.
Whats worse is you should be betin' mechilah from the Rebbe for slandering this organization.
Excuse me if you read the article Rabbi Heller did speak about it and call it wrong. And as I said in the second comment if something on the site is wrong I invite readers to call us out on it! Yes Tziovs Hashem did alot of good. But they need to be called out for this big wrong. I think this is something the rebbe would want someone to stand up and do something about.
ReplyDeleteThe point here is not to bad mouth but rather call out Tzivos Hashem on what was terribly wrong.
ReplyDeleteKol Hakavod to Cool Jew. Yes, the time has come to make all our events Chassidish only, using and encouraging budding talents, in our own unique true Lubavitch fashion. Take the cue from your brothers and sisters in Eretz HaKodesh, where Chayolim and chayolos are limited to niggunim, and produce the most amazing musical events annually.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, the mixed seating is a terrible problem. Some community leaders aka "Shluchim (of who?) feel that they must make mixed events or the crowd won't show. I have news for you all: we made an "evening with Chabad" in a shomer hatzair kibbutz that grows dovor acher r"l. One of our conditions was to have separate seating, but between ourselves we said that this one time, if the room is seated mixed, we won't stand on principle.
Well, to our amazement, the room was set up lemehadrin, with a huge empty space between men and women. So, if you belief in what the Rebbe teaches, and state it amtter of factly, your mekurovim will come dressed for the Cahssidish occassion and enjoy a separate but equal event.
Sorry for the rambling, but there is a tip: if in doubt if you are doing the right thing, ask yourself if yopu could invite the Rebbe to this event, and would he be able to attend?
Moshiach NOW!
Yosef, the problem with frum Judaism currently can be most clearly seen in the way people handle music. Religious kids are brainwashed from the moment they can put on a pair of headphones that if they don't listen to Lipa or Avrahom Fried they might as well be eating a Christmas ham. Chas vashalom they should hear Jewish rock or hip hop music! Even if it is promoting Torah values, that style of music is completely off limits! So what happens is that kids either hear Jewish music straight out of the Warsaw ghetto or they go completely in the opposite direction and hear the "popular" music. There is no in between because anytime someone tries to find a middle ground, people like you get all hot and bothered! This is not an accusation, just an observation.
ReplyDeleteMeir again the issue and the Argument it against Tzivos Hashem and what the orginazation did. I encourge people to do new things. Make new music ect. This is not the music industry in general. Tziovs Hashem has a standard to hold it self to. Let people be free to do as they wish! Aderaba go make innovative music. The complaint is against Tzivos Hashem. They have a standard to live up to.
ReplyDeleteQuestions to address:
ReplyDelete1. Why are goyim dancing on stage Any worse than a goy electric guitarist? ( aside from style)
2. What makes you think, that goyim dancers will Lead to bad things? Where did you get that notion from?
3. If it was a small prat, and not THAT bad itself, and just a gateway ( as you stated). Why the harsh, adamant, outcry? And not just an open debate? Maybe a " here's what I say, what do you think"
4. If thIs mamash going to 'RUIN' the kids. Why are you the only bozo to out TH? It would be like one newspaper reporting on a terrible disaster! The kids are Ruined!!! Something fishy is up.
5. How is disscussing TH threats to YOU personally, not loshon hara?
Don't just respond to the easy questions.
There is one main issue here and that is that the moisad of the Rebbe, nameley Thzivos Hashem, put on a show that is not befitting because of the mixed sitting and the goyishe atmosphere. What makes this even worse is that it was intended to bring out the specialty in ?Jewish children. It was all done in the name of openness and talent. What a shame. The Cool Jew is absolutely right. There would be no complaints if some other organization ran that show but Tzivos Hashem?? Can you imagine that show in 770 in front of the Rebbe? I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteWhy do most of you ask, what would the rebbe think? Forget that! What would HKBH think? with all the bickering and criticism? Stop with all the vanities and "I'm cool." Does Hashem want a Jew to be "Cool" Where does this come from? What does it mean? Everything we do is supposed to be for glorifying Hashem's name in His world. We are his emissaries here on earth and as far as I can tell we are failing miserably.
ReplyDelete"... O ye sons of men, how long shall my glory be put to shame, in that ye love vanity, and seek after falsehood? Selah
But know that the LORD hath "SET APART" the godly man as His own; the LORD will hear when I call unto Him...."
Tehillin 4
TO MR. Questiosns
ReplyDeleteAgain let me emphasize what one person just commented: "There would be no complaints if some other organization ran that show but Tzivos Hashem?? Can you imagine that show in 770 in front of the Rebbe? I don't think so."
THAT IS IT BIG ISSUE. With that said lets answer the questions.
1. Why are goyim dancing on stage Any worse than a goy electric guitarist? ( aside from style)
A: Who said they are not. Tanay hold music to be a very deep thing. At a Tziovs Hashem concert it should only be Jewish players!
2. What makes you think, that goyim dancers will Lead to bad things? Where did you get that notion from?
A: We have a Torah command not to follow in the ways of goyim. Yes We have adapted alot of things from them if not most of our life but when we put them on stage and again espically in the name of TZIOVS HASHEM then this is not a very positive message?????
3. If it was a small prat, and not THAT bad itself, and just a gateway ( as you stated). Why the harsh, adamant, outcry? And not just an open debate? Maybe a " here's what I say, what do you think"
A: I could choose not to publish your comments but I put them here so people can hear all sides. I am making thing conversation open!
4. If thIs mamash going to 'RUIN' the kids. Why are you the only bozo to out TH? It would be like one newspaper reporting on a terrible disaster! The kids are Ruined!!! Something fishy is up.
A: I am not the only one. Tons of phone calls were made to Tzivos Hashem this past week. Rabbi Heller in Crown Heights screamed against this. Im just the only website to bring it to the table. Allot of other websites were paid off with banners by tzios hashem. I never got involved as I was busy last night anyways so I had no interest to be involved. I have always supported Tziovs Hashem on CoolJew, I posted many videos from them. But when they do something so openly wrong like this and I begged other websites to take up this issue but it fell on to deaf ears. We spoke to several rabanim in crown hieghts who all said if its true that they really are putting these goyim on stage its very wrong and they are against it!
5. How is disscussing TH threats to YOU personally, not loshon hara?
A: The point is to show how serious the lie and cover up of this is. If Tzivos Hashem really cared they wouldn't lie or make cover ups. The point is to show how low things got!
cool jew you are so right
ReplyDeleteI see you did not post my comment with my questions. Is it because you are afraid to answer them since they will expose your bias?
ReplyDeletePlease address the issues that I raised.
all questions were posted an answered.
ReplyDeleteI asked questions regarding the nature of Rabbi Heller's comments ...
ReplyDelete1) Where were his comments made?
2) Did he bring the issue up or was he approached
3) Did he speak with Tzivos Hashem
4) If someone approached him, who? Was it you?
5) I see you were one of the only jewish websites to not have an ad from this show, how then can you prove that this is not retaliation for not getting an ad from them?
6) What were the full remarks Rabbi Heller made?
7) Does Rabbi Heller know that you used his quotes in your post?
8) Did Rabbi Heller give his Haskama to this post?
9) If you were right that so many high ranking Rabonim felt this way why did they not take any lead action themselves in the form of a Letter to the community (as did many who were upset of the speaker at the education conference on Sunday)
1) Where were his comments made?
ReplyDeleteA; Crown Heights Kollel Sunday Morning
2) Did he bring the issue up or was he approached
A; He brought the issue up: in short his speech was not everyone can take stuff from the goyim, one has to be very careful when doing these kind of stuff, and therefore before some does something he got to ask a rov, it cant just work that everyone does what he wants, things will and are just getting out of hand, he finished off saying that all this goes to everyone, because everyone might become a shliach one day
3) Did he speak with Tzivos Hashem
A: No Idea!
4) If someone approached him, who? Was it you?
A; Never meet him in my life!
5) I see you were one of the only jewish websites to not have an ad from this show, how then can you prove that this is not retaliation for not getting an ad from them?
A: Many Jewish sites never got the ad. I can never prove that to you that wasnt the reason. But I can say that a person who would insult a mosad of the rebbe over an ad is very very very low disgusting person!
6) What were the full remarks Rabbi Heller made?
A; Said above
7) Does Rabbi Heller know that you used his quotes in your post?
A: Never asked?
8) Did Rabbi Heller give his Haskama to this post?
A; He spoke publicly! He said his opinion. I made the post own my own and only quoted his opinion as das torah.
9) If you were right that so many high ranking Rabonim felt this way why did they not take any lead action themselves in the form of a Letter to the community (as did many who were upset of the speaker at the education conference on Sunday)
A: I guarantee you will see one over the next few days. We spoke to three rabbanim in crown heights yesterday to ask if they were aware of the situation. All three had no knowledge of what was taking place at the show. They simply didnt know. But they told us if it truly is taking place it is VERY wrong.
you didn't put up my comment?!?!?!? so i guess your not putting up all comments
ReplyDeleteI will only post if its trying to be productive. Not bashing!
ReplyDeleteaha so basically you cant take any criticism!!!
ReplyDeleteand your telling me you don't have any agendas!!!
you are asking for a war!!!!!
I can take criticism!!! I just dont publish it! Send all you want. As for war I guess I pick my battles and this is a battle I choose to fight! BECAUSE WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG ITS WRONG!
ReplyDeleteThis is completely ridiculous!!!
ReplyDeleteI lost complete respect for anyone who opposed this concert... This was all done with good intentions with a little twist... I can't believe it has come to this... Every rabbi these days are banning everything from the event to this... What's next???
It has come to the point where I lost respect for all of these rabbis!!!
as the famous saying goes
ReplyDeleteask 2 jews an opinion and you will get 3 answers
tzivos hashem an organization founded by the rebbe, and run by people that follow the rebbes words
and i am sure they did what they di with consultation of chabad rabbis
and not every person that disagrees and has a loudspeaker (or a website etc) can stand inthe street and scream and shout. and that doesnt mean each person needs a answer to their shouting and yelling..
a story i heard so i will say it in general terms so dont quote all the exact details ....
there was once a reporter who asked the rebbe a question about something people were saying about the rebbe the reporter asked the rebbe if he would like to comment and the rebbe said no and asked why. the rebbe answered that if i have to answer every rumor that is out there about me and lubavitch i would have time for nothing else ........
vdal
so mr cool jew (that name dont sound so frum to be what is this idea of being "cool" is that a goyishe thing ... or is it refering to a "cold" jew) shout all you want but you dont desrve a response.. i fully trust the people the rebbe put in charge of his moisdois. he knew whta he was doing and i fully believe that
but, why it's ok for other "Lubavitcher" to sing and peform for non-jews, and not ok when couple of african-american performs (like dancers) for frum jews (did you see new video of Describe and Matis, how many goiym was involved and how many jews saw it as well on internet)
ReplyDeleteWe spoke to many Chabad Rabanim and all of them told us they were against it!
ReplyDeleteMr. Shloimo Seskutov That Video was never posted on CJ for a very good reason!
ReplyDeletethe COOL jew is complaining about non-chassidishekeit... :-)
ReplyDeleteThis post read like a ranting of a mindless obsessive.
ReplyDeleteJust a few notes:
You write as though you were surprised that it was a mixed seating event, and that others were surprised too.
So when you bought two tickets, one for you and one for your wife, you didn't realize they were right next to each other?
Secondly, there have been countless mixed seating concerts arranged by Chabad institutions. Right or wrong, it is suspect that you single out Tzivos Hashem for critique.
You keep stating that you represent the Rebbe's view and philosophy, yet fail to quote even one source backing your claims. The one JEM produced video you mention (I can only guess, you provide no link) talks of using care when following goyishe educational methods, and hardly rejects goyishe innovations outright.
Goyishe sound technicians,arrangers and musicians are used at almost every Jewish music event you can think of. Somehow a dancer makes it all that much worse.
If a child went to a goyish voice instructor, we'd read your scathing attacks too, right? So why the outcry over a choreographer?
In conclusion, I'm going to revert to your tactics and make an assumption without the backing of real evidence:
If the dancer was white, it would not be a problem. Your sensibilities all of a sudden became aroused at the sight of an African American on stage with a few Jewish boys. A nice white dancing expert from Boston teaching the boys some moves would have suited you just fine.
Or maybe the the problem is that the choreographer's name wasn't Nolan Jackson?
ReplyDeletei reading your blog every day, and there's a lot of really cool videos...
ReplyDeletebut did you post HASC concert videos(there's always mxd seating), did you post (somewhere in january or so) video with S.Klaus images and many many more, did Rebbe was agree with Mr.Klaus?
and anyway to blame jews by posted "Shame on..., and "Kids ruined..." you have to be competent in that field, especially when we learn now parsha about saying something harsh to the other jew
just read your blog for the last 6 months and you can find a couple videos that (on my opinion) should not be shown to jews
oy oy oy! lubavitch, where are you?!!!!
ReplyDeleteAgain let me emphasize what one point: "There would be no complaints if some other organization ran that show but Tzivos Hashem?? Can you imagine that show in 770 in front of the Rebbe? I don't think so."
ReplyDeleteTzivos Hashem did actually have a mens, womens, and family section. It was not intentionally mixed.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the goyish dancer whom you're referring to - so happens to be his mother is Jewish. Please do your research well before bad mouthing the Rebbe's organization.
CoolJew, why do suddenly feel so righteous in details of chassidishkeit??? :) What's your personal issue with tzivos Hashem? Is it because you never reached a high ranking soldier? .....Don't worry, it's never too late...
ReplyDeleteFirst you dance with goyim then you dance with girls and then you dance with pigs... Oy vey! They goyim are coming!
ReplyDeleteAs I read all the comments, it was heart warming that frum Jews expressed the outrage of the intermingling with goyim. This was Mordechai's outrage and B"H we did tshuva. We need to take a stand and say that our most precious commodity is our children. What kind of messsage did this send to children. And you wonder why there are soo many children at risk. It's because they don't see any emes in our Judaism. Putting on this show was a sure way to show that the hypocrisy of our life style. Shukel when you daven, but don't forget the concert with the goy or the goyisha taam. I think that Lipa said it all, he doesn't care if we all go to Gehanim, as long as he makes his money on our expense.I hope and pray that we all do tshuva so that Moshiach can come. I am sure that is what the Rebbe longed for.
ReplyDeletekudos to the cool jew for standing up to and having the courage to respond and post all the criticism against your point of view.I find that it really tells something about you ,and i respect you for it. to all the negative commentators there is a way to say evreything ,the least you can agree on is to disagree peacefully.
ReplyDeleteYosef Thanks for posting this story while not letting yourself get caught in the banning crack pots net I like your focus is on Tzvous hashem and not the Jewish music industry in general I hope your site grows and doesn't suffer because of you going public when you think a wrong has been committed
ReplyDeleteYou are one hundred percent right. Entertainers and producers doing what the dream up without asking das Torah
ReplyDeleteThe problem with TH and other jewish / lubavitch organizations (like friendship circle etc.)is, that you get caried away in your work and thrive for success, and you totaly forget what your mission is ABOUT
ReplyDeletelike the saying "from so much trees you can't see the forest"
you know it's interesting- ive found that generally the people who really make a big deal about "modern" styles of music in the jewish world are one of two things: either they have absolutely no talent whatsoever, cant sing,cant play an instrument, can't dance and thus, have no idea what its like to restricted to a musical style that is hundreds of years old and obviously completely outdated. Furthermore they think the only way to dance is to stand in one spot doing some pathetic little wiggling, like most jewish performers do today.it's frankly painful to go to a jewish concert and watch these overweight, out of shape chassidish singers essentially just walking around around aimlessly on stage. Its completely boring. Mind you, I love most jewish music, but their shows are generally a disaster. and if we keep suppressing childrens talent and creativity, then we will only continue to have issues with children becoming irreligious and developing all sorts of bad habits.
ReplyDeletePeople are being totally over-dramatic about this concert.Im willing to bet that not one kid went home from the concert and said "hmmm,you know what that dancing was cool, i think im done with religion." if anything they probably thought it was cool and will try to emulate those cool "religous" kids who did stuff like that.
As a side not- if youre going to write an opinionated piece, try to write so that you give off the impression of an intelligent person. as someone said above- your article looks like a 5 yr old wrote it and it truly discredits what you are saying, as it looks like it's coming from an unintelligent person.
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ReplyDeleteIt is quite clear that you do not post comments that will strongly weaken your argument. I Posted comments that were never posted because you know that you will look weak!
ReplyDeletePlease make this a blog with all opinions (obviously in a appropriated manner) so simple folks can have a place to post there opinion, and if they are wrong there can be some dialog between you and your readers!
I check this site on a regular basis up to reading this post about TH really turned me off! Even more so reading your part of the argument
were u at the concert? they had men only and women only sections to sit seperately and a part in the middle was mixed to accomodate some wider community supporters and families that came
ReplyDeletewhats wrong with that?>
As we have been told it was all mixed> Nevertheless even family seating the rebbe would never alow!
ReplyDeleteAll you big talker are still going to the concert next year, so shut up and stop lying to yourself.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, Mr. Misnaged in the above comment, this is why we consider you a SNAG (see his comment for details).
additionally - the kids didn't do any goyish dance moves,,they sang niggunim and the concert theme song very tastefully - they looked very choreographed and professional (thats where the goyish dancers came into play to teach them how to be choreographed, but they didnt perform with them on stage)
ReplyDeletethe only person dancing with them was lipa - thats the diff between him and avraham fried who is a lubavitcher
I'm not the judge. Hashem is The Judge. Its not my job to decide whether or not other people do right or wrong. I can only follow my Rabbeim's hashkafos and use them to work on MYSELF - not on other people. I don't know whether or not what they did is right or wrong but arguing about it is pointless because its an EMOTIONAL argument in which case neither side can POSSIBLY convince the other side and all it will do is create sinas chinam.
ReplyDeleteDrop the issue, everyone keep opinions to themselves, and work on making OURSELVES better people; we don't have to look down at others to make ourselves feel better about our own faults. If you haven't reached your potential for perfection, then any faults u can find in someone else are irrelevant.
I promise there is nothing a human being can do that can make Hashem HATE him. Regardless of what a person does Hashem loves them BEYOND their wildest imagination. The least we can do is try to emulate Hashem and love them too.
I for one, agree with you tremendously. Just because the Rebbe isn't here now, doesn't mean that our standards should diminish - yet they have. Not only Tzivos Hashem, but all the schools, including the Mosdos limud, such as Oholei Torah and Beis Rivkah, who took the first opportunity after Gimmel Tammuz to raise their tuitions to unpalatable heights, not caring if their is parnasaa in the family, or how many children a family has etc - thereby bringing the growth of Yiddin to an immediate screeching halt. Today, no one's having kids! And are youth are falling way WAY low, when they see all the hypocracy from the "Rebbe's Mosdos" they tell themselves: why should we struggle and not have a good time, like our parents?? We don't need this! They begin to shave, go frei and enjoy life!!! Why be a LOSER like their parents - they might as well enjoy life!
ReplyDeleteif tzivos hashem is so bad why dont you see chayolay tzivos hashem
ReplyDeleteand btw:stop saying "the Rebbe wouldnt approve of this and he banned this" coz the rebbe doesnt like gossip either!!!!!
ReplyDelete